Ck2 Holder Is Of Wrong Holding Type
Is it possible to upgrade tribal holdings of vassals? Ask Question 6. I am a new player of CK2 (current patch) playing as the feudal King of Sweden on the standard start date. I conquered some tribal holdings in the North via holy war and, noticing the 'wrong type of holding' penalty, granted these to some of my middle sons and other relatives. If you have taken a county which has a city or church as a main holding, and also has a castle built, you can keep the castle for yourself (or revoke the title from the current holder). When the month changes, the castle will become the primary holding, and you can then grant the city to a mayor, while keeping / granting the County by means of the castle instead.
Greetings my loyal subjects and welcome to my first AAR (and my first game) of Crusader Kings II, my latest purchase and hopefully the first Paradox Interactive game that really sinks its teeth into me! This will very much be a learning experience and I'm open to any and all help and suggestions that you may want to direct my way, especially from our resident CK2 players.ContentsEpisode 1 - Some introductionsSo, enough of the formalities.
It's high time I introduced myself and showed you around my court and home.My name is Duke Murchad I of Munster. I'm a 39 year old Irish Catholic of the Ua Briain house. I currently have no wife, my father, grandfather and half-sister are all dead, but I do have two half-brothers to share the burdens of the world with. I also have one son and heir, to continue the family name once I depart this blessed realm. As you can see, I'm pretty much a Mr Average, putting a decidedly positive spin on my skills (from top to bottom I have 6 Diplomacy, 9 Martial, 7 Stewardship, 4 Intrigue and 5 Learning), my only saving grace is that I'm a tough old bugger and a bit handly on the battlefield.My son and heir is Brian MacMurchad, 18 years old, and otherwise a real chip off the old mans block.
We are so alike that many a fair maiden has mistaken us for brothers! Brian's opinion of me (1) is pretty cordial, probably because, like most sons, he finds his old mans sense of humour to be pretty questionable.Now you've met my direct family, it is high time you met my councillers, my five most trusted advisors that will help propel me to the greatness that my dynasty deserves. First up is Chancellor Toirrdelbach, my 57 year old cousin and confidant is a masterful diplomat. Next is Marshall Conchobar, my 19 year old nephew. He's real keen to impress me, but I'm still undecided about his suitabilty on my council, he'll have to prove hsi worth and quick, to stay in my closest circles. Next we have Steward Tadg, a 16 year old kinsman, who is also being rather chummy towards me. I'm not decided on his future, even though he is showing signs of being a masterful administrator.
Next is my Spymaster, a 17 year old kinsman by the name of Tadg. Once agin the love is coming my way, but I'll hold judgement on Tadg for the time being. Last, but by no means least, is my Court Chaplain and 47 year old half-brother Conchobar.
Conchobar unforunately has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he has designs on extending his lot in life and I have sources that say that he desires the Duchy of Munster for himself. I'll have to keep an eye on him!Edited April 19, 2012 by Penry. Family and court introduced, it's time to have a quick tour of my lands. First up, my ducal capital Thomond, consisting of my ducal seat Bunratty Castle, the city of Limerick and the Bishopric of Killaloe. As you can see, I can pull 9.8 gold per year from Thomond and call on 297 levvies, should the need arise.Next up is my other county, Ormond. The county seat of Ormond is the city of Waterford and Ormod also has the Bishopric of Cashel to its name, famous for its delicious blue cheese.
Unfortunately there is a slight risk of revolt in Ormond, due to cultural differences. As I don't run Ormond directly I can't reap as much taxes each year, and I don't seem to be able to rely on any levvies from Ormond either!Ormond is run by Ragnvald, the 45 year old Lord Mayor of Norwegain Catholic descent, from House av Vedrafjord. I'm a bit distrusting of him (him being a foreigner and all), and Ragnvald has a very low opinion of me. Subject number two to keep an eye on then. So that just about wraps up my duchy. I'll leave you with a view of my immediate surroundings.
First my immediate objective, Desmond. I have a de jure (by law) claim on this land and title and I fully intend to press it just as soon as I can!
Desmond comprises of the county capital Dunasead castle, the city of Cork and the Bishopric of Cloyne. I'll have to get some more men together before I go on the offensive as it is currently able to support a similar amount of men as Thomond. Time to save some pennies, then engage the services of some mercenaries.Desmond is ruled by Muiredach, a 41 year old indulgent wastrel of the House Mac Carthaigh. I'm hoping his subjects will prefer a strong ruler rather than their current poor excuse for a lord!Lastly, looking further afield, here's the political situation in my neighbouring environs.
The current year is 1066, so things are about to kick off big time over the other side of St. Georges Channel. If things are quiet in my local neck of the woods I'll fill you in on the situation here and maybe even further afield, so you can see how dynamic the wider environment is, independent of my local scheming.Any questions, please ask.
Ck2 Holder Is Of Wrong Holding Type
Any advice, please be forthcoming! Last, but by no means least, is my Court Chamberlain and 47 year old half-brother Conchobar.
Conchobar unforunately has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he has designs on extending his lot in life and I have sources that say that he desires the Duchy of Munster for himself. I'll have to keep an eye on him!' Court Chaplain' not 'Court Chamberlain.' Kibitzing (from someone who has yet to play the game): How about replacing Conchobar with Mayor Ragnvald? Gets rid of one guy who dislikes you (altho he is a blood relative) and perhaps the promotion of Ragnvald will bring him over to your side. Besides, his book learning is 18, twice that of Conchobar, so he should be much better as a chaplain.(I do so what my desktop back from the shop so that I can play this game.).
Ck2 Pillage Holding
Episode 2 - Some housekeeping and a stubborn stain gets cleaned. 1066 to 1067So, now you're familiar with my family, followers and lands, it's time to get down to some routine jobs as a feudal lord. While showing you around my demesne I took notes on what tasks I needed to address and came up with the following list. Get married - the ducal bed can get lonely at times and I can't go wenching with my son all the time. Get my son married off - if I can't have fun, then neither will he. Time to get responsible young man!.
Have a son, to be my spare heir - I've a feeling that these are going to be turbulent times for the Ua Briain's, best to have a backup for plan B!. Have a daughter - I should get some connections with some powerful friends overseas. I knew things were going too well.
No sooner has I shown my young bride some traditional Irish hospitality, then I was raised from my chamber, sweaty and tired, by my Marshall to inform me that that blasted Ragnvald had rebelled against me and was staking a claim for independence! Bloody savages, can't a lord enjoy his honeymoon period without being pulled away from the festivities and thrust onto the battlefield? Apparently not!Reports came in of just under 150 men heading towards Thomond, mostly light infantry, but with a few archers too. So, the War of Ormondian Independence begins!I had a thought to hold tight in the castle and let Ragnvald's pitiful army break themselves on its walls, but he was having none of that and stopped short of the border and set out his stall for an open battle. Foiled, and to make matters worse my young Marshall was showing signs of nervousness and asked to be married off before joinging the slaughter. I told him that women could wait until after the war, but I was worried by his nervousness, so sent him back to training troops.
I wouldn't need his services on the bettlefield as I anticipated an easy time of things and I'd need some well trained troops for future rucks.I called my men and levies up, put the mayor of Limerick, Eamonn, in charge of the centre and head of the battle. Time to test my vassals out and see what they are made of.
I'd take the lead in a battle that was worthy of being called one! I took the left flank, while the Bishop of Killaloe took the right with his church levies. We set off for Ormond.Forces met on the fields outside of Waterford. As expected, Ragnvald only had enough men to fill his central formation, so things were going to be even easier as I'd be able to flank him form both sides. Mayor Eamonn and his troops looked nervous, but I had faith in their ability to be the bait in the trap.Or maybe not, Ragnvald made a mad dash at my centre and overran the Mayor and his troops. They crumbled and collapsed and things turned to panic.
Ragnvald turned on the Bishop and his church levy and started to make headway there too. Sensing that now was the time to put an end to this nonsense I collided into Ragnvald's exposed rear and smashed his men to dust. The weight of my heavy infantry really made the difference and the battle was soon saved from an embarrasing outcome - The Battle of Wateford was won. Our forces suffered jut under 50 casualties, while Ragnvald suffered closer to 100.Taking the head of the army, I pushed on to the city of Waterford itself. My army now numbered just short of 300, while Waterford was garrisoned by just under 150 and they were starting to look a bit worried at the sight of an angry Irish lord heading their way!
I decided that I'd teach Ragnvald, and all potential misbehavers, a lesson and pushed on to siege the city.While I was regrouping my men and laying the first stage of the siege, my half-brother, Lorcan MacDonald, whispered in my ear to suggest that, had he been Marshall, he would have lead the army into The Battle of Waterford and things would have gone a lot smoother. I took note of his comment, but told him I would look into the matter further when this little inconvenience was over. Looks like people are maneuvering for power left, right and centre.The siege of Waterford lasted a couple of cold winter months, but soon enough the city fell and all the defenders were put to the sword.Next stop of my little tour was the Bishopric of Cashel and its Norwegain Bishop.
I had a feeling that this one might be a closer affair as the Bishopric had about the same amount of men defending as I had attacking, around 250 each. At least the Bishopric was only lightly fortified and my men had their teeth into the campaign now and were eager for it to be brought to a close.Sure enough, I gradullay started to wear away at their defences and morale, and just as I was starting to feel pleased with myself I received message that my Spymaster has stepped down from his position.
I'm not sure why, I thought he had died but it appears not. With no time to investigate I made a note in my war journal and decided to investigate the matter further once I had wrapped up this little revolt.With very little resistance the Bishopric fell and all the defenders were once again put to the sword. I couldn't show any signs of mercy, not if I wanted to get my dynasty off on the right foot.
Any signs of weakness might be exploited by other potential dicontented vassals. I was rather disappointed with their defence though. I thought these Norwegians were tough, obviously all the headcases are over in England carving things up there!With Ormond silenced I threw Ragnvald in jail (the lucky sod survived the bloodshed), revoked his titles and claimed Ormond for myself. Last order of the day was to send my men home and revisit my chamber with my wife.
After a little tantrum she soon came round, nursing my bruises and whispering into my ear how much she'd like a daughter. Far be it from the Duke of Munster to disappoint his wife. So, here's how things look by July 1067.
Not a great deal has changed visually, excepted 4/5ths of my council is out and about, working hard.And here is my new list of jobs to do, once I've finished my marital duties that is!. Now that I directly control Ormond it says 'Holder is of the wrong Holding Type' - that's why I've got the red 4.27 showing to the right of the screen next to Waterford I guess. I'm presume that I need to put a mayor in charge there, trouble is, I haven't seen one yet.
Any ideas gents?. While I was out campaigning I got pestered by five vassals, all wanting to be married off. What am I, cupid? I guess this needs to be seen to sooner or later. I need to have a good look at my Marshall and his potential replacement. While I'm at it I'll have another look at all my less than stellar advisors.
I need to appoint a new Spymaster, as the last one bottled out. I need to do something about my unhappy Chaplain. I need to do something about Ragnvald. Do I let him rot in jail, or can I get one of my apprentice cooks to cook his evening meal one day. Lastly, but definitely not leastly, I need to press my de jure claim on my friendly neighbour to the south.Thoughts and comments fellow Crusaders, or Crusader wanabees!. Now that I directly control Ormond it says 'Holder is of the wrong Holding Type' - that's why I've got the red 4.27 showing to the right of the screen next to Waterford I guess. I'm presume that I need to put a mayor in charge there, trouble is, I haven't seen one yet.
Any ideas gents?1.) You can hold it, but you will get a hefty penalty to taxes and such. However, if wealthy enough, holding on to cities can well be worth it.2.) Any male character can be a mayor. If the city is not the primary title of the county, you can just right click and auto create one. Or you can choose a character in your court or a vassal's court and give them the title. 1.)Not sure I get this. Vassals marry themselves, without your interference. Only people in your court will pester you, and then only your blood relatives, which you should marry away either way to further your dynasty (claims, titles, score, possible heirs should you be unlucky with your main character)My best guess is that this has something to do with the laws in your country.
Maybe weakening your control on your demense would solve the problem.but why not just find brides for them instead?Nicely written description of the battle.:b:BTW: I hereby revoke my recommendation that you make Ragnvald your chaplain. @ NikolaiMy mistake. The marriage pests are all from my dynasty - half-brothers, nephews, cousins and kinsmen.
I'll put it down to roleplaying, I was far too busy with the little war to be bothered by bloody relatives!I think I'll keep hold of Ormond for now, at least until I get some more land. Then I think I'll give it to a half brother, saving the better land for my heir.@ ZkribblerThanks for the:b:. To be honest, I looked to see if I could have made Ragnvald my Chaplain, but couldn't seem to find a way to to it.
He didn't come up in the list when I clicked 'Appoint'. Now he can rot.@ AlexanderNot a patch on yours, but practice makes perfect. When is the next AAR competition over at PI? Are they regular events or one offs? Maybe with the big DLC? Episode 3 - Disaster at Desmond - 1067 to 1068So, the first order of business was once again to attend to my domestic duties. I married off my young nephew and Marshal to a courtier from Castelo Blanco in Portugal, my young Steward to a courtier from Apulia in Italy, but I refused two of my elderly relations the chance to re-marry.
One was my 58 year old Chancellor, he’s far too old and will be far too busy working for me to have time for amorous adventures too. The other was an equally elderly kinsman, who had a handful of children already – no point in causing a stir by bringing in a new woman. The last of my relatives to marry off was my ex-Spymaster. I wasn’t sure about a match for him, so I put it on the back-burner while I had a look around Europe for a suitable match.While I was nosing around the noble backwaters of Europe I was once again approached by Lorcon MacDonald, with a view to becoming my new Marshal. He’s my half-brother and is slightly more qualified for the position, so I relented and made him my new Marshal.
Let’s see if he can do a better job than the young man I had before. First order of business for Lorcon was to get back out training those troops, ready for the new campaigning season!I think all this hankering around, looking for partners for my extended family must have taken its toll on me, either that or the extremely poor winter had an effect on my health, but I went down with a bad sickness and was bedridden for weeks. My wife and nearest were in quite a pickle, worrying themselves sick about my health and fussing over me. My dear wife even suggested we should move to sunnier climes, to get away from the miserable Irish winters! What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, or so my old man always used to say to meAfter a number of weeks locked away in my bedchamber I got well again, and no sooner had I risen than I was accosted by the Bishop of Cashel, complaining that Ragnvald was unhappy with his living conditions and demanding better quarters. Maybe they thought they’d catch me weak and forgiving, maybe not – let him rot!There was still a few weeks left at the tail end of the bleak winter to arrange my ex Spymaster a suitable partner, and I had recently received news from Norway that a princess had recently been widowed, so in a gesture of reconciliation with our Norwegian neighbours I arranged for Tadg to be wed to the princess. She was with a new child, who she had been carrying while her husband died, not ideal, but the olive branch had to be extended to our warlike neighbours.
Edited March 11, 2012 by Penry. And so campaigning season finally came around. My coffers were suitably stocked and my men were fully rested, well trained and raring to go. I wasn’t quite ready to release them from their barracks just yet though. I had other plans for them and intended to hire myself some mercenaries to do the dirty work of softening the Earl of Desmond up, saving my men for more mobile duties.After some negotiating I took on the services of Sigebert of York and his band of Saxon mercenaries – 75 gold for 150 light infantry, 750 heavy infantry, 150 pikemen and 450 archers. They’d also require 6 gold per month that I kept them on the books, but I had enough to pay for 5 months of service, so I was pretty confident that I could get things wrapped up by then, or at least have the brunt of the work done by then and my men could deliver the coup de grace.Troops hired and levies ready to be raised I declared war on Earl Muiredach of Desmond.
He responded by bringing forth 80 odd light infantry, over 200 heavy infantry and a score of light cavalry. Not content to wait for the killing blow to come, as my 1500 strong troop of mercenaries descended on his lands, the Earl headed off to the lightly defended county of Ormond. I quickly raised my personal levy and raced off to intercept him, while my mercenaries headed straight for the Bishopric of Cloyne.I met the Earl just as he was about to lay siege to Cashel and our two equal forces squared up for a bitter slugfest. Our armies were remarkably evenly matched and comprised of very similar troop dispositions and I anticipated that It would come down to leader skill, which I had the edge on him! Our armies crashed and grinded together in a bloody, static melee, going back and forth without anyone gaining the upper hand, then disaster struck and I was wounded and had to withdraw from the cauldron of the battle. My troops started to lose heart and the Earl gained the upper hand.
I desperation I called up my realm levies and sent them off to bolster the lines.Meanwhile my mercenaries were making light work of the Bishopric of Cloyne, the defenders didn’t stand a chance! Just as they were taking the Bishopric the Earl of Desmond was routing my leaderless army, sending them scurrying back to Thomond, just as my realm levies passed them and headed into the bloodbath. In the ensuing confusion the Earl put my reinforcements to the sword, sending them scattering all over the place too! Disaster!Thankfully the mercenary leader, Sigebert, had a cool head and, leaving the newly liberated Bishopric, turned and led his troops over to Ormond to crush the Earl and his men. The Earl of Desmond knew his only chance was to get inside some sort of fortification before my mercenaries fell on him, but he was too slow and was caught out in the open between nearly 1500 men and the Bishopric walls.I had finally dealt with the Earl, but now my enemy was money. I had planned on focusing my mercenaries on taking the holdings of county Desmond, not running here and there around my duchy, mopping up from my disastrous warplay! Now my coffers were looking decidedly depleted and the last thing I wanted was to run out of gold mid-way through laying siege to county Desmond!
I must move quick to finish this business as soon as possible!I ordered my mercenaries to hot foot it to Castle Dunasead, and after cutting off all possible lines of supply I decided to forgo the usual phases of siegecraft and directly assault the castle. The casualties might be huge, but it was either that or lose my mercenaries when my coffers ran out, and if they switched over to the Earls side rather than head home then I would be toast! Over two hundread brave men perished in the assault, but I’d bought back myself a big chunk of time that a full siege would have cost.The castle secured, they headed off for the city of Cork and repeated the initial stage of siege war. As soon as they were sure no reinforcements could catch them out unaware, they stormed the city walls, again taking huge losses, almost three hundread men this time in some atrocious fighting in the narrow city streets. Such is the life of a mercenary, but there is no place for sentimentality in medieval warfare!On a roll, I returned to what I presumed would be a lightly defended Bishopric of Cloyne, but I found that the Earl had holed up in this last bastion of defence, his Bishop besides him and hatred in the eyes of his two hundred odd men that would make his last stand.
Thinking that the lightly fortified walls would be no match for just under one thousand mercenaries, I gave my assault tactics one last try, surely they would overrun this last desperate defence. But desperate men are capable of extraordinary feats, and my mercenaries were exhausted and demoralized from being used so callously. To my amazement the Earl and Bishop dug in and repelled my swarming mercenaries, whose morale broke and they fled back to Thomond.
What went so wrong in my supposedly foolproof plan!Only one thing for it, one last throw of the dice! I waited for the mercenaries to return to Thomond, rallied them with a fortifying speech worthy of a Duke with designs for greatness and led them back to Cloyne with the remnants of my levies. I figured I might just have time for one last siege attempt before my coffers were empty so we set out our stall and adopted a patient strategy this time.
Winter was drawing in and I really didn’t want to prolong the war a day longer than I needed to, but better to lose a few men to the bitter Irish winters than lose a host to another reckless assault, especially as they were my men in the thick of it again!Thankfully, after a couple of weeks of siege the Earls men started to waiver, and after a handful more weeks they finally broke and I was able to overrun Cloyne with minimal losses. I immediately parleyed with the Earl and demanded that he return the land that was rightfully mine. Job done I heartily thanked Captain Sigebert and his men and dismissed them from my service, they certainly earned their fee in this campaign!What a calamitous campaign. How could I have got it so wrong. I was so confident going into the war, feeling that 1500 men would be able to deal with anything the Earl could throw at them, while my men tidied up any stragglers and kept my homeland safe from counter attacks.
I guess that is what you get with the sort of skills I’m able to bring to the party. Let’s hope that I can draw some wisdom from this disasterous episode and go on to more successful campaigns in the future. And so I find myself with my de jure duchy of Munster back to its rightful size and shape. It's been and long, hard test to get this far, and I find myself in need of some time of peace, to spend some time with my lovely new wife, who, bless her heart, has had to put up with me being in my saddle more than in her bed.
She's twenty nine years old and we had best get down to producing some more heirs, lest I have another accident and my son has to take the reigns of power all by himself.I will take some time off from aggressive campaigning, spend some time and money improving my duchy and give my men a well earned rest, especially as my vassals are complaining about me having their men for too long! I had better not push my luck, and I had better reward those who served me faithfully.I guess now would be a good time to cast our eyes over at our Saxon neighbours, whose mercenaries came in such use and abuse from this coarse Irish duke. Unfortunately things aren't looking too good over the channel.
William the Conqueror controls Oxford and Northampton, King Harald of Norway has a strong foothold in Durham and is making gains in Suffolk, and even Duke Gudrod I of The Isles is having a chew, far to the north of England in Northumberland! Desperate times indeed, I guess I should count my blessings.Edited March 11, 2012 by Penry.I will take some time off from aggressive campaigning, spend some time and money improving my duchy and give my men a well earned rest, especially as my vassals are complaining about me having their men for too long! I had better not push my luck, and I had better reward those who served me faithfully.I concur. IIRC, there are 'honorary titles' you can hand out, which cost you nothing, but which make the recipient happy.Also, I think I saw in the list of courtiers that the right hand column shows their fondest desires. You might want to grant some of those too. Build improvements if you have the money.
Get your marshal training troops.BTW: Do you have a fondest desire at the moment? You got your bride; you got your heir; you got your de jure duchy. There was still a few weeks left at the tail end of the bleak winter to arrange my ex Spymaster a suitable partner, and I had recently received news from Norway that a princess had recently been widowed, so in a gesture of reconciliation with our Norwegian neighbours I arranged for Tadg to be wed to the princess. She was with a new child, who she had been carrying while her husband died, not ideal, but the olive branch had to be extended to our warlike neighbours.Did the marriage bring the princess to your court? If so, when she gives birth, the grandchild of the King of Norway will-well, hostage is such an ugly word.:sneaky. IIRC, there are 'honorary titles' you can hand out, which cost you nothing, but which make the recipient happy.Also, I think I saw in the list of courtiers that the right hand column shows their fondest desires. You might want to grant some of those too.
Build improvements if you have the money. Get your marshal training troops.BTW: Do you have a fondest desire at the moment? You got your bride; you got your heir; you got your de jure duchy. What's next?Indeed, later today I'm going to have a more in depth look at my people and lands, to sort out the web of intrigue that is already building. I shudder to think what playing this game as a major power would be like - all those schemers under you! My ambition at the moment is to have a daughter, and it's my wifes too. I'd also like to get another boy out of her, as a backup to my son and heir Brian.
Did the marriage bring the princess to your court? If so, when she gives birth, the grandchild of the King of Norway will-well, hostage is such an ugly word.:sneaky:Princess Ingegerd is indeed residing at my court. As eldest daugther of King Harald IV of Norway she was quite a coup. If only I could have married her off to a more direct relative! Still, I'm still learning the game and will be more vigillant next time.You sir are going to seriously love this game if you can make all these connections without even having access to the game mechanics. You could spend a great deal of time just browsing and scheming your way through the various dynasties.More goodness later, off for Yum Cha soon with FeMme and Nugog! Another excellent read.
I hope your O'Briens will continue to solidify their hold on the Emerald Isle. Grab another couple of duchies and the crown will be within your grasp!You may wish to make a push for the eastern part of the island. In the west, Connacht is likely to be strong enough to give you pause, while snacking on the lands of Leinster and Meath in the east could get you two separate duchies to seriously boost your prestige. (Be careful not to grant a duchy to a family member while still a duke though - the lands would pass out of your realm.).
Be careful, there's a bug. If you give your heir, for instance, a mayorship or lord-mayorship, he'll turn into a burgher, and when he inherits your realm it will break the game. All your titles will become open elective, as well as anything he takes himself while ruling, thus banning your own dynasty from inheriting and giving it to random courtiers.
Oddly, it doesn't appear to end the game, so you'll play as these random, non-dynasty courtiers.dRuined my Munster game. I only fixed it by forming the Kingdom of Ireland before my he dies, thus turning everything to gavelkind and putting my dynasty back in.It was kind of funny having an Irish duke with the title 'Doge', though!